Location: 5.11 "Whatever Happened, Happened"

Discussion: Where is Tom?Reported This is a featured thread

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KateFan
Where is Tom?
Apr 2 2009, 1:45 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2009, 1:45 AM EDT
Were any of the others we saw when Kate and Sawyer were handing off Ben any of the others we know from after the crash of 815? 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
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Stephany1177
Stephany1177
1. RE: Where is Tom?
Apr 2 2009, 1:02 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2009, 1:02 PM EDT
I don't know. I didn't see anyone I recognized other than Alpert in that scene. Do you find this valuable?    
Beatrix25
Beatrix25
2. RE: Where is Tom?
Apr 2 2009, 2:09 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2009, 5:39 PM EDT
Good question. If it were any of the Others, they would have aged by the time Flight 815 landed, so maybe it was a younger version of them, like Tom for instance, if it were him in that scene as a younger version, why would he age, Richard Alpert don't. What is Richard the only one that does not age, we know Ben does. Ellie, who I think is Eloise Hawkins ages and so does Charles Widmore, who the Hostile/Others mentioned in that scene, we didn't see them though, I wonder if they looked the same in the 70's like they did in the 50's and then aged when they left the island. I am not even sure that Ellie is Eloise, I am just guessing. But, it makes you wonder even more why Richard is the only one who never ages. Is that his gift from the island? We all know Ben ages. And , what Richard said a/b Ben, he said to Kate "if we take him he will lose his innocence and will always be one of us." It reminded me of the Book of Genesis, when God said, I can't remember exactly....After Adam and Eve ate the apple God said..."Now these human beings will become like us and have knowledge of what is good and what is bad.", which means to me, that they lost their innocence. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    

KateFan
3. RE: Where is Tom?
Apr 2 2009, 4:35 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2009, 4:35 PM EDT
I missed 'Ellie'. Good catch Beatrix! Do you find this valuable?    
Beatrix25
Beatrix25
4. RE: Where is Tom?
Apr 2 2009, 5:42 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2009, 5:42 PM EDT
"I missed 'Ellie'. Good catch Beatrix!"
Thanks KateFan!!
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Stephany1177
Stephany1177
5. RE: Where is Tom?
Apr 2 2009, 6:31 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2009, 6:31 PM EDT
"Good question. If it were any of the Others, they would have aged by the time Flight 815 landed, so maybe it was a younger version of them, like Tom for instance, if it were him in that scene as a younger version, why would he age, Richard Alpert don't. What is Richard the only one that does not age, we know Ben does. Ellie, who I think is Eloise Hawkins ages and so does Charles Widmore, who the Hostile/Others mentioned in that scene, we didn't see them though, I wonder if they looked the same in the 70's like they did in the 50's and then aged when they left the island. I am not even sure that Ellie is Eloise, I am just guessing. But, it makes you wonder even more why Richard is the only one who never ages. Is that his gift from the island? We all know Ben ages. And , what Richard said a/b Ben, he said to Kate "if we take him he will lose his innocence and will always be one of us." It reminded me of the Book of Genesis, when God said, I can't remember exactly....After Adam and Eve ate the apple God said..."Now these human beings will become like us and have knowledge of what is good and what is bad.", which means to me, that they lost their innocence."
But Adam and Eve willfully lost their innocence, they made the choice to eat the forbidden fruit and fall into temptation. I don't know what denomination you are, I was raised Roman Catholic, but honestly I pretty much shifted in to Atheism. But like you I saw the Christianity reference. And it made me uneasy, sort of sympathetic for Ben now. Like your example in Genesis, Adam and Eve may have had a lack of knowledge and experience, but they still had free will, so their innocence was not taken from them upon other people's choices as in Ben's case his innocence is taken from him because of Juliet, Kate's, Jack's and Sawyer's choices.
1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Beatrix25
Beatrix25
6. RE: Where is Tom?
Apr 2 2009, 7:56 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2009, 7:56 PM EDT
So you also saw the similarities too. But I do see what you mean about the difference where Adam and Eve had free will, but Ben did not. I never thought of that. Do you find this valuable?    
Mike1177
Mike1177
7. RE: Where is Tom?
Apr 2 2009, 9:10 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2009, 9:10 PM EDT
Good comparison you two. I hadn't quite thought into it that deep. This makes me question the scenes we see from next week's episode. Ben says that he is coming back to the island for his judgment. How can one's actions be judged when their actions are based on a form of predestination, and not on free will? Do you find this valuable?    
Beatrix25
Beatrix25
8. RE: Where is Tom?
Apr 3 2009, 7:47 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 3 2009, 7:47 PM EDT
Yea, I did not think anybody else picked up on that. But of course Stephany did, but she thought it through more thorough and made me think about free will and all which kinda made me stray from my original idea. And as for your question, I think a person should not be judged for their actions if it originally did not start out on his own free will. It's like little Ben was born again that will become another person once they take him as a child. It does make you feel bad for older Ben. They took his choice from him and all he was trying to do was get away from his abuse father, then last week I felt bad for the father after admitting how wrong he was with little Ben when he found out he was badly injured. For some reason I see Roger becoming a better person due to this event that happens to his son. Do you find this valuable?    
Stephany1177
Stephany1177
9. RE: Where is Tom?
Apr 3 2009, 8:49 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 3 2009, 8:49 PM EDT
Lol in an odd way Ben's story is hitting home for me, but not in such an extreme manner as shown on the show. I can't help but feel sympathy for Ben now lol... Do you find this valuable?    
lizzie101102
lizzie101102
10. RE: Where is Tom?
Apr 21 2009, 6:47 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 21 2009, 6:47 PM EDT
I like the Adam Eve theory in some ways ben made the choise to join the others he was letting sayid out so he could join them so maybe it wasent totaly un-willing of ben to go to the others, but then again he might have changed his mind after a while with the others. one more thing were do the others live? Do you find this valuable?